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INTERVIEW WITH TRANSFORMATIONAL COUNSELOR – PAVITAR DEBRA TURNER

LESLIE : We have been friends for many years now and what I feel I know about you is that you are a devout seeker of truth and awakening.  How did you come onto this path? Who were your teachers? 
PAVITAR:
I have been on this path of growth for over 30 years now and what brought me to it was a deep dissatisfaction with life… After a rather troubled childhood with little experience of love and acceptance I found myself searching in all the usual ways that people tend to for something more…I tried drugs, partying, relationships …not very successfully…. worked hard to get NICE things and eventually discovered that none of these external factors were ever going to give me the something I was looking for. In my early 20’s after suffering depression and questioning what was the point of anything a friend gave me a Buddhist book which I read and some internal seeker was ignited… A few years later I stumbled upon a book by an Indian teacher or Guru “Osho” I read that book and for the first time I felt normal… I had hope and believed that I wasn’t in fact a misfit …… so the journey began… A trip to Poona the Ashram in India where Osho was and I threw myself into all the teachings, groups and what I now know as the “inner landscape or my own inner world”.

After many years of groups, study, therapy and healing and also many teachers later I found myself quite by accident in Byron Bay Australia with many other spiritual seekers….. I trained and became a therapist finding my calling….Oh how I just loved supporting others to realise the truth of themselves and also in guiding people to directly experiencing life and all it’s flavours. I was lucky in Byron as I had a radio show on the Community Station and hence became well known very quickly… I interviewed all the teachers who came through and also brought some amazing people to the area to teach.

I discovered that what we seek is already here and it’s really all about attention… I also realised for myself that spirituality is LIFE and that nothing is separate from this…. No holier than though tactics for this one….Just the discovery of compassion, love, kindness and acceptance…. Have I arrived at where I wanted to be all those years ago, I would have to say YES but in saying that the journey never ends..Growth is happening all the time… I guess it’s just easier once the witnessing consciousness takes it’s rightful place and resistance to what is disappears….
Teachers who have influenced me are so many, to name a few and in no particular order, but definitely with Osho at the top. Gangaji, Ramana Mahashi, Dr Diane Poole Heller, David Deida, Oneness University, my psychologist of years ago, my son and the biggest teacher really now is LIFE.
Leslie: Walking on the path of consciousness sometimes seems to be a harder path than say working on only a material level and having no interest at all in spirituality. How do you balance having to work and survive in the day to day world and yet also keep on this path?
PAVITAR:
I think the balance of working in the world and staying on the path as you say is innate…they are not separate….In my work I am lucky that the focus is on growth for others and of course myself but even when I’ve had to clean houses, work in corporate environments, pay bills, make money etc. “I am here” and trust has become a way of life not something I think about….. When I reflect I see I’ve always managed and following my heart may not make me a millionaire but I’m surrendered to my path…. I don’t think everyone is meant to be a millionaire… I have always had a home, food on the table and managed to travel and do most of what I want to… See I discovered me and in that discovered what I’m good at and what gives me joy…Somehow the rest takes care of itself….. The human mind is so brilliant. We think we are in charge and in control but really we are much more than that…and with surrender comes support in ways we would perhaps not have envisaged.
LESLIE: Do you feel as though the world is in conflict in many areas these days because people are ignoring their potential to awakening?
PAVITAR:
I have no idea if people are ignoring their potential to awakening or even if they need to…. the word awakening is not a favourite of mine these days as I think it has become so polluted…. What we need to do as human beings is develop the quality of trusting our hearts ahead of our heads, of slowing right down and checking inside, that gut feeling, that inner knowing which is so often discounted by the thoughts and beliefs we have… At the end of the day we are one big human family and with kindness and care and innate intelligence we can all live together well and happily…..
Why is the world in such conflict today?….I don’t know….It saddens me that it is so and I would rather focus on how to bring peace and understanding to humanity and I think this is happening slowly…..
I think fear is at the core of all conflict and that is perhaps what people need to face…..
LESLIE: Your session work is very powerful. What are you offering your client in when you work with them?
PAVITAR:
In my sessions I bring people into a place of peace and stillness…from there we work together…Enquiry, curiosity, strategies if needed and many other things come in to play…. Healing happens and change manifests if the client is ready and willing…. It’s really all about presence… Somehow I create a morphogenetic field where people are easily guided to drop inside… We remove resistance and directly experience whatever is here…In fact that’s the key… When we allow the full experience of what is to be ‘directly experienced’ there is no suffering… You see suffering is not in the fact, it’s in our interpretation of the fact…..So we slow down, I guide people away from interpretation, I don’t let them run and I don’t let them indulge….they are simply in the experience….It may not always be pleasant but the end result is permanent transformation or change as I prefer to call it.
I guess because I have been living this way myself for so long I am able to completely get out of the way and hence the divine presence shines though and does it’s work……
LESLIE: If you had the magic key to creating happiness and peace around the world what would you do?
PAVITAR:
The magic key to creating happiness and peace around the world is such a big question and a desire that can only begin inside oneself….There are so many people doing so many good things and I love to see this in action..You and your website is a great example….Some of us do it in a big way others smaller but it all counts……If I could I would have the whole world doing guided meditations into themselves but hey that’s romantic dream… I don’t have the answer to world peace and happiness but I do have the desire and opportunity to contribute to it by being it myself and encouraging others to do so too……But remember you can lead a horse to water………
LESLIE : THANK YOU DEAR PAVITAR, NAMASTE